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Klaus Heimann espouses SAP’s smart utility of 2020 at International SAP for Utilities conference

I attended the 7th International SAP for Utilities event in Munich last week.

Having attended the SAP for Utilities event in San Antonio last year, I had reasonably high expectations from this conference and I wasn’t disappointed. At the San Antonio event SAP talked very much about the ‘State of the Now’ talking up their, then recently launched, Energy Capital Management software. At this event however, Head of SAP Service Industries, Klaus Heimann keynoted introducing SAP’s vision for the utility company of 2020!

In what was a very forward-looking address, Klaus confidently predicted that:

In two years time this will no longer be a Utilities conference, it will be en Energy conference

This must have had a lot of the people in the room squirming in their seats because, as Klaus himself said, “Utilities are not known as being good at change!”

But change they must.

Just a few of the upcoming major changes utility companies are going to have to cope with include the growing imperative to move to a greater penetration of renewables in the generation mix, the impending explosion in the numbers of electric vehicles to be charged, and the need to roll-out smart grids and take in distributed generation.

Klaus’ vision for the utility company of 2020 is summarised in the video interview I conducted with him above, but briefly he talked of an energy market vastly more complex than today’s. An energy market:

  • where customers can be consumers and producers (via micro-generation)
  • where customers may have shares in a wind-farm which sells electricity to the local utility
  • where customers receive rebates on kWh’s saved during times of peak demand (compared to avg previous day’s use at same time, for example)
  • where utilities will have special renewable-only power offerings (I wish they had that now)
  • where utilities will need to be able to bill customers for energy used to charge electric vehicles, away from home (at the office) or even in different countries and
  • where utilities will need to be able to offer real-time consumption information, generation data and a control interface to the customer’s appliances

Nothing too earth-shattering in that list to be honest. But, when put against the types of changes utilities have gone through in the last 100 years, this is an enormous upheaval. This is probably a good time to be a change management consultant in the utilities sector šŸ˜‰

For this vision to become real (and any utilities who don’t start to move in this direction can start writing their own obituaries now), there needs to be massive changes in utilities communications infrastructures and their data handling capabilities.

With big change, comes big opportunities so it is not surprising to see SAP are all over this and helping the utilities visualise where they need to go.

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Alcatel-Lucent partners to rollout smart grid in Germany

Alcatel

Photo credit Kaptain Kobold

Alcatel-Lucent announced that it has signed an agreement with the German municipal utility Stadtwerke Pasewalk to implement smart meter operation services.

New European Union rules, which come into effect on January 1 2010, will require consumption dependent billing of gas, electricity and water and by utilities. The Alcatel-Lucent solution being used here is designed to address that legislation. Interestingly, according to the release, Stadtwerke Pasewalk customers will be given a home energy monitor which will enable them to see their energy consumption in real-time and optimise it accordingly. There are no details on whether there are plans to automate the in-home energy reductions, nor do they talk about whether the the meters can be updated remotely.

Alcatel Lucent have partnered with Vodafone Germany, DIEHL Energy Solutions and SIV AG for this project. Alcatel Lucent will operate the central meter data management system to monitor and control the smart meters, Vodafone will provide communications, DIEHL Energy Solutions will deliver the smart meter systems while SIV will provide the backend ERP system to handle the data. The SIV ERP system (kVASy) is based on an Oracle database.

Stadtwerke Pasewalk is one of nearly 900 utility companies in Germany (!) and is quite small with only 12,000 meters so this is akin to a trial-sized project.

The involvement of so many partners, in even this modest rollout, is a clear indicator of just how complex smart grids can be to implement. Partnerships (and interoperability) amongst smart grid solution vendors will be critical to the success of these ventures.

The skills learnt here will benefit not just Stadtwerke Pasewalk and its customers, but all of the companies involved as they move onto future larger smart grid projects.

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Ford’s thinking on Electric Vehicles

Thomas Edison And Henry Ford
Photo of Thomas Edison and Henry ford courtesy of Ford Motor Company

Recently I spoke with Greg Frenette, the manager of Ford’s Electric Vehicle program and he filled me in on just how long Ford have been working on electric vehicles and vehicle-to-grid technologies. Although not as long as may be indicated in the photo above, Ford’s Advanced Engineering Research group have been working on concepts with respect to plug-in hybrids since 2005.

Ford’s initial utility partners in their plug-in hybrid program were Southern California Edison but they soon expanded the program to include the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI) as well as a grouping of 10 utilities and research organisations across North America.

This quarter Ford will complete the build-out and deployment to the partner organisations of their fleet of 20 plug-in hybrid Escape’s. These vehicles are demo’ing real world vehicle-to-grid interconnectivity. According to Greg they have

a prototype communication control system on the vehicle which works with a Smart Meter, through the use of wireless Zigbee technology, to give the vehicle owner control and direction in how they access the charge

Part of this limited roll-out is to look closely at the bigger infrastructure issues – what does it mean to introduce EVs onto the grid? What standards will be adopted? What upgrades will be necessary in technology & infrastructure to connect these vehicles both at home and in public to the grid?

Speaking about the integration of the vehicles onto the grid, Greg said:

We can envision how the car will be integrated into the smart home of the future and how the home-owner would have the ability to make trade-offs and decisions that involve the vehicle as well as the energy budget for the rest of the household

It is spectacular to hear that (at least one of) the car manufacturers is thinking about the implications of the rollout of smart grids, realtime pricing tariffs and integrating electric vehicles onto the grid. As I have said before, if a country has a large fleet of electric vehicles, they have the capacity to act as a distributed battery for energy storage at even greater than utility scales. In fact, the Rocky Mountain Institute goes further when they say:

Utilities sell a disproportional amount of their power on hot summer afternoons. At night, business plummets. For the utility, that means their expensive generation and transmission equipment stands idle. ā€œNight-chargingā€ vehicles, therefore, could be a lucrative twist on the business of selling electrons.

The National Renewable Energy Laboratory recently estimated that if half the nationā€™s light vehicles were ordinary plug-in hybrids they would represent a night-charging market of 230 gigawatts. Thatā€™s good news for the U.S. wind industry. In many areas, wind tends to blow harder at night, creating more energy when the vehicles would be charging.

With full vehicle to grid integration those same vehicles could sell back some of their energy to the grid on those hot summer afternoons, when electricity is expensive and potentially prevent the firing up of more expensive and dirty generation.

Even better was that Greg brought up something most others shy away from discussing – the old data ownership question! According to Greg Ford believes that:

The consumer is a key stakeholder when it comes to the data. The communications control capability has to be part of the total value equation to the automotive consumer as well as the energy consumer. Ford is looking for win-win solutions between utility industry, between the auto industry that ultimately provide increased value to both of our customers

Ford wants an open architecture communication solution which has to have “direct consumer applicability, marketability and value to be worthwhile”.

If Ford succeed in rolling out that vision, I’ll be first in line!

Ford are introducing the first fully electric cars to the market in 2010 – 2011 while their first plug-in hybrids will come to market in 2012.

Ford are also looking beyond electric vehicles. They have had a fleet of 30 hydrogen fuel cell vehicles on-road with customers since 2005 with over 1,000,000 miles on them. Ford see electric as a medium term solution to sustainable transport but hydrogen as the longer term goal.

Personally, I’m not convinced about the viability of hydrogen as a solution – especially if IBM can crack the lithium air battery they are working on.

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The importance of open standards for broad smart grid adoption

Standards

Photo credit Leo Reynolds

If you are not sure why open standards are important, you need to read this quote from the opening address of the The Southern African Telecommunications Networks and Applications Conference 2005, by then Minister of Science and Technology, Mosibudi Mangena:

The tsunami that devastated South Eastern Asian countries and the north-eastern parts of Africa, is perhaps the most graphic, albeit unfortunate, demonstration of the need for global collaboration, and open ICT standards. The incalculable loss of life and damage to property was exacerbated by the fact that responding agencies and non-governmental groups were unable to share information vital to the rescue effort. Each was using different data and document formats. Relief was slowed, and coordination complicated.

If the Internet weren’t built on open standards we might have found ourselves in a situation where you’d need an IBM browser to look at the IBM website, an HP browser to look at the HP site, a Microsoft browser to view the Microsoft site and so on. In fact it is the very openness of the standards on the internet which has led to its explosive growth and ubiquity.

Proprietary standards lead to vendor lock-in and to the crazy situation where if, for instance you buy a Sony digital camera, it typically uses Memory Stick cards that can be acquired only from Sony and a few select licensees, and this memory is typically much more expensive than alternative memory types available from multiple sources but which won’t work in Sony cameras.

In the Smart Grid space, standards are also extremely important. We need ensure that there is no vendor lock-in (i.e. if a utility has GE transformers, they need to be free to buy their smart meters from any smart meter vendor, not just GE, for example).

One of the most successful of the open standards has been TCP/IP, the protocol used for communicating data across a packet-switched network, like the Internet or almost all home or company networks. The next incarnation of TCP/IP is called IPv6. The advantage IPv6 has is that it allows far more items to be networked than is currently possible and that will be vital if we are to start networking the appliances in our house so they can participate in the Smart Grid. This is why companies like Cisco, who have no history in the energy space, are going to have a part to play in the roll-out of Smart Grids. Indeed Cisco have been talking up the importance of IPv6 for Smart Grids and creating ecosystems “to facilitate the adoption of Internet Protocol (IP)-based communications standards for smart grids.”

This explains why standards and interoperability are becoming really hot topics in the Smart Grid space at the minute. In fact that’s what the majority of the company announcements from last week’s Gridweek conference were about:

By far the most important announcement around Smart Grid standards though wasn’t from a company, it was from the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST). They presented for public comment a major new report on Smart Grid interoperability standards. That this document was launched by US Commerce Secretary Gary Locke should be an indication, not just of the importance of standards for Smart Grids but fortunately, just how important the Obama administration perceives them to be as well!

Cisco famously said that the Smart Grid space:

will be 100 or 1,000 times larger than the Internet. If you think about it, some homes have Internet access, but some don’t. Everyone has electricity access–all of those homes could potentially be connected

The only way Smart Grids will achieve that scale is if the standards required for that growth are drawn up and adopted.

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September 28th Energy and Sustainability show

Here is today’s GreenMonk Energy & Sustainability show. I had a couple of problems with the audio setup starting out so the show started a couple of minutes later than normal. Unfortunately, for some reason the quality of the video recorded by Ustream was atrocious (as you can see above – no idea why that was, must look into an alternative for next week). In the meantime, the links from the shownotes below may be of use.

This being the week following the GridWeek conference in the US, as expected there are many Smart Grid references!

03:35 Tom Raftery: Are we doing better now?
03:35 Joe Garde: thats it tom
03:36 Joe Garde: audio on!
03:36 Tom Raftery: Sorry about that
03:37 Tom Raftery: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/28/philippines-storm-death-toll
03:38 Tom Raftery: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2009/sep/28/philippines-philippines
03:38 Tom Raftery: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/6236690/Met-Office-catastrophic-climate-change-could-happen-with-50-years.html
03:41 Tom Raftery: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxCQHn-w0Bw
03:41 Joe Garde: all was fine
03:41 cgarvey: Worked OK, yup
03:42 cgarvey: The video’s site is http://co2isgreen.org/ for further info (if you want to do that to yourself!)
03:42 Joe Garde: shocking Tom
03:43 Tom Raftery: http://understory.ran.org/2009/09/15/breaking-activists-drop-70-banner-off-of-niagra-falls-to-tell-canadian-pm-no-tar-sands-oil/
03:45 Tom Raftery: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/09/ibm-proves-smart-grid-reduces-energy-use-by-15-reveals-key-to-success.php
03:46 Tom Raftery: http://green.venturebeat.com/2009/09/16/ibm-launches-software-to-standardize-accelerate-smart-grid-startups/
03:47 Tom Raftery: http://www.greentechmedia.com/green-light/post/smart-grid-stimulus-wait-for-it-doe-says
03:48 Tom Raftery: http://green.venturebeat.com/2009/09/23/siemens-silver-spring-announce-smart-grid-interoperability/
03:49 Tom Raftery: http://green.venturebeat.com/2009/09/22/trilliant-abb-partner-to-make-smart-grid-technologies-interoperable/
03:49 Tom Raftery: http://green.venturebeat.com/2009/09/22/silver-spring-networks-gobbles-up-greenbox-to-become-smart-grid-powerhouse/
03:50 Tom Raftery: http://green.venturebeat.com/2009/09/14/itron-teams-with-openpeak-for-more-advanced-home-energy-use-management/
03:51 Tom Raftery: http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/smartgrid_092409.html
03:51 Tom Raftery: http://www.reuters.com/article/environmentNews/idUSTRE58L59720090922?feedType=RSS&feedName=environmentNews
03:53 Tom Raftery: http://en.cop15.dk/news/view+news?newsid=2177
03:53 Tom Raftery: http://www.businessgreen.com/business-green/news/2250179/south-korean-utility-spend-4bn
03:54 Tom Raftery: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20327271.900-better-world-global-green-heroes.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=environment
03:56 Tom Raftery: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6851682.ece
03:58 Tom Raftery: http://www.triplepundit.com/2009/09/better-place-renault-let-a-100000-electric-cars-bloom/
03:58 Tom Raftery: http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2009/090921b.html?mtxs=rss-corp-gcnews
04:00 Tom Raftery: http://www.apple.com/environment/
04:01 Tom Raftery: http://www.triplepundit.com/2009/09/ebay-greenhouse-gas-emissions-reduction-target-15-percent-by-2012/
04:01 Tom Raftery: http://www.triplepundit.com/2009/09/nissan-tackles-the-silent-electric-car-problem/
04:02 Tom Raftery: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/25/technology/25bulb.html?_r=2&src=twt&twt=nytimesscience
04:09 cgarvey: Thanks again Tom!
04:09 Joe Garde: cheers tom
04:09 Tom Raftery: Thanks everyone for your time, interest and contributions

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The Electricity 2.0 revolution has begun

Smart meter projects globally

This is a map of current smart meter/smart grid projects globally overlaid on Google maps.
Screenshot credit Me(!)

I wrote my first Greenmonk post about Smart Grids and Demand Response back in April 2008 and followed up with a few more in the next few weeks including one in June 2008 where I said the electrical distribution system needed to be more like the Internet. Those posts were extremely cutting edge at the time but the world has caught up considerably in the last 18 months due in no small part to the election of Barack Obama and the focus on energy efficiency in his stimulus package!

Under Obama’s administration the US Dept of Energy announced in June of this year the rules for $3.9billion in Smart Grid stimulus grants. The first winners of $3.9 billion in smart grid stimulus grants will be announced in mid-November according to DOE deputy press secretary Jen Stutsman.

In a very positive move earlier this week, US Energy Secretary Steven Chu endorsed the importance of Demand Response as part of the solution when he said that electricity costs should move to reflect demand. Secretary Chu went further though arguing for the kind of automated Demand Response we have proposed here on GreenMonk when he said:

“Price signals do matter, but you can’t just simply use a price signal,” Chu said. “You really have to make it very easy to save energy.”

Consumers need to have a very simple system that will provide them with specific information about their energy use and they should be able to adjust their appliances so that they run mostly during non-peak energy hours

Adrian Tuck, CEO of Tendril announced last week that mass market home energy management is three years away. Obviously, being the CEO of a company in the space, he would say that, wouldn’t he? But looking at the slew of announcements which came out of the Gridweek conference (see below) it is hard to fault his optimism.

And just yesterday U.S. Commerce Secretary Gary Locke and the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) presented for public comment a major new report on Smart Grid interoperability standards. The approximately 90-page document [pdf] identifies about 80 initial standards that will enable the vast number of interconnected devices and systems that will make up the US Smart Grid to communicate and work with each other.

You know that the administration is taking Smart Grids seriously when the Commerce Secretary presents for public comment a report on standards!

This week saw the GridWeek conference happening in Washington DC and with it a massive slew of Smart Grid related news. I’ll try to do a quick round-up of the main stories:

Partnerships

Acquisitions

Smart Cities

Launch

Other Announcements

With finance, administration backing and so many announcements (many of which are worthy of blog posts in their own right) there is no doubt but that the Smart Grid train has well and truly left the station. There are still a significant number of issues to be addressed by companies involved in the Smart Grid space. Some companies will founder, some deployments will fail (esp as utilities are notoriously bad at customer communications!) but there is no doubt that finally the Electricity 2.0 revolution has begun – there’s no turning back now.

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Reflections on Logica’s analyst day

Logica Portugal

I attended a Logica Analyst briefing earlier this week in Logica’s recently opened International Utilities Competence Center (pictured above).

The days was chock full of talks from both Logica staff and also from JoĆ£o Torres, President & CEO EDP DistribuiĆ§Ć£o – the Portuguese DSO, and a Logica customer.

Most of the talks were very interesting but two that stood out for me were the ones given by JoĆ£o Torres where he discussed EDP’s smart grid project, called InovGrid and the demo of RMS (Renewables Management System) by Jose Antunes and Rita Burnay. RMS is Logica’s software for managing remote windfarms.

In discussing InovGrid JoĆ£o explained that despite the costs of rolling out a smart grid, EDP felt that the benefits outweighed the costs. The main benefits JoĆ£o saw from smart grids were:

  • increase intelligence, supervision and control of the network
  • improve the efficiency and quality of the electricity supply
  • facilitate the maximising the amount of micro and distributed generation on the grid
  • enable smart metering and smart energy management

InovGrid is one of the most advanced smart grid projects in Europe. EDP now has 3,000 micro-generators on its grid and expects to have 200,000 smart meters installed by the end of 2010.

JoĆ£o was extremely open during his presentation. When asked which communication protocol was best for a smart grid, he said he felt PLC was best but he admitted that it had issues. EDP, he said, have a team assessing protocols and that a lot of the details are still to be decided.

Jose Antunes and Rita Burnay gave a demonstration of Logica’s windfarm management software RMS. The software is designed to manage large numbers of remote wind turbines and allows for quick and easy drill down on information. In the demo, we were shown RMS’s live feed from over 2,000 wind turbines all over the Iberian peninsula. The software collects and stores 300-400 data points from each turbine in realtime simultaneously.

As Jose said, wind turbines typically cost in the order of ā‚¬1m per MW so one of the main functions of RMS is to minimise downtime of turbines. However, because it also stores all the historical data for turbines, it is able to plot performance of each turbine against the manufacturers SLA’s. I can see this being a popular screen!

Jose also told us that Logica are taking over the management of all of EDP’s wind turbines in Europe and the America’s. This will mean they will increase the current portfolio they are managing from 2GW to 10GW (though I don’t imagine all 10GW will be under one instance of RMS!

Logica’s Chris Beard gave a fascinating talk on a new Logica offering called Smart Office but I’ll come back to that in a separate post.

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IBM’s Drew Clark on electricity, water and trends in sustainability

I had the good fortune to have a chat with IBM Director of Strategy Drew Clark recently. We had a great talk covering how to get noticed by the IBM Venture Capital group, water and energy projects and trends in sustainability globally.

We even speculated on the likelihood of demand response systems being rolled out for water management.

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Not so Smart Grids, doomed to fail?

Command and control

Photo credit Mikey aka DaSkinnyBlackMan in Iraq

I was invited by James McClelland and Maureen Coveney to participate in a panel at SAP’s Sapphire conference earlier this year discussing Smart Grids.

One of the key points I made was that utilities are not used to having to deal with customers. The only real interactions utilities have with customers are 1) sending out bills and 2) when the power goes and customers ring up to complain. It is highly unusual to have a utility company poll its customers when rolling out a new product, for example (for that matter, when was the last time your utility rolled out a new product?).

With the requirement to roll-out smart grids and the increasing empowerment of customers using web 2.0 technologies, for example, utilities are now going to have to learn to listen to their customers very quickly. Any roll-out of demand response programs which doesn’t take customer concerns into account is almost certain to run into serious difficulties. I have heard several utilities talk about using smart grids to come into customers houses and turn down their air conditioning at times of peak demand. Wrong! This kind of message will not sell easily.

A recent example of a not-so-smart grid was highlighted by 3News in New Zealand recently when they reported that the smart grids being rolled out there were ones where:

the benefits from smart meters almost entirely accrue to the retailer… Consumers will end up paying for meters that provide them with minimal benefits

Utilities are going to have to radically change how they deal with their customers, and quickly or they risk having spectacular failures when they launch their smart grid initiatives!

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July 6th Energy and Sustainability show

Yesterday’s GreenMonk Energy and Sustainability show went off without the technical hitches which plagued the previous week’s show. I fixed the chat app and the Google Calendar button so you can now add the show to your calendar (and be notified of any changes to the schedule).

Consequently with the chat app now working in Firefox, there was far greater audience participation in the show – something which was sorely missing from the previous week’s show!

Here is this week’s chatstream:

03:31 Tom Raftery: Hows is the audio, video & chat?
03:31 MikeTheBee: stopped
03:31 MikeTheBee: no audio or vid 4 me
03:32 MikeTheBee: back now
03:32 MikeTheBee: did a refresh
03:33 liveireland: all you need now is greenscreen
03:33 MikeTheBee: lol
03:33 MikeTheBee: oooh
03:34 Tom Raftery: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6620438.ece
03:35 Tom Raftery: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/jun/29/rising-sea-level-new-orleans
03:36 MikeTheBee: google calendar link is now working for me.
03:36 PaulMWatson: I hope that water is sustainable…
03:36 MikeTheBee: that is why they are not really rebuilding then
03:37 monkchips: canada??? whats up with that?
03:37 monkchips: tom – the new setup is awesome! you look so much better
03:37 Tom Raftery: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/gleick/detail?blogid=104&entry_id=42949
03:37 monkchips: no need for american panstick makeup
03:38 monkchips: hello mikethebee
03:38 Roland: Calendar link works fine for me too!
03:38 MikeTheBee: hi mc
03:40 Tom Raftery: http://blog.taragana.com/n/58-percent-of-worlds-seagrass-meadows-on-the-decline-95347/
03:40 cgarvey: Re: Canada; Read up on Steve Harper and you’ll see he’s not to far removed from George Bush at all at all.
03:41 monkchips: as i understand it
03:41 MikeTheBee: And we were going to harvest that sea grass for fuel.
03:41 monkchips: coastal syndrome is often reversible
03:41 monkchips: *if* we get well off it.
03:42 Tom Raftery: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/04/us/04scotus.html?_r=2
03:44 Tom Raftery: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/jul/01/exxon-mobil-climate-change-sceptics-funding
03:44 Tom Raftery: http://www.ecosalon.com/a-solar-powered-crime-wave-in-napa-valley/
03:45 MikeTheBee: sarcasm does not become you šŸ™‚
03:46 Tom Raftery: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/01/2613841.htm
03:47 Tom Raftery: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/opinion/2009-06/30/content_8335844.htm
03:47 MikeTheBee: You must need it for all your flights
03:48 monkchips: you love it you dirty carbon *****
03:50 Tom Raftery: http://www.3news.co.nz/Environment-commissioner-calls-for-smarter-smart-meters/tabid/419/articleID/110073/cat/68/Default.aspx
03:51 liveireland: me too.. i work in electrical engineering
03:51 MikeTheBee: Can we enhance the smart meter using CurrentCost type controllers
03:51 Tom Raftery: http://www.survival-international.org/news/4706
03:53 Tom Raftery: http://news.mongabay.com/2009/0701-amazon.html
03:53 monkchips: i would happily pay directly for that
03:55 monkchips: holy ****
03:55 monkchips: we have to write that up
03:55 Tom Raftery: http://www.scientificblogging.com/news_releases/waterboxx_grows_forests_desert
03:56 cgarvey: “The WaterBoxx gives them a head start, Hoff explains” .. g’wan The Hoff! Omni-present!
03:57 Tom Raftery: http://www.inhabitat.com/2009/07/01/virtually-waterless-washing-machine-cuts-water-use-by-90/
03:58 PaulMWatson: Good for water treatment and run-off problems too
03:58 Tom Raftery: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science/06/28/green.walls/index.html?iref=intlOnlyonCNN
03:59 Tom Raftery: http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/06/29/no-fluke-new-survey-finds-4-gas-is-the-tipping-point
03:59 PaulMWatson: Water usage of vegitecture? Maybe use WaterBox condensation techniques
04:01 SukiFuller: Better late than never – howdy folks!
04:01 PaulMWatson: Could filter greywater through the walls? Like some green-homes
04:02 monkchips: they always overwhelm the sewers too
04:02 monkchips: so you get a LOT of pollution hits
04:02 PaulMWatson: Good point about storm drain problems. e.g. Dublin.
04:02 monkchips: the water supply
04:02 monkchips: thus for example the awesoem progress we made in thames
04:02 monkchips: really threw us back
04:02 Tom Raftery: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090706/bs_nm/us_autos_japan
04:03 Tom Raftery: http://environment.uk.msn.com/news/headlines/article.aspx?cp-documentid=148278848
04:05 Tom Raftery: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/opinion/05friedman.html?th
04:05 MikeTheBee: I’m still seeing people hard cover their gardens when they have the money, rather than using ‘old hat’ lime chippings
04:05 monkchips: where does that monkchips find the time?
04:06 SukiFuller: Who is that monkchips dude?
04:06 MikeTheBee: one cool dude, that guy
04:07 PaulMWatson: @MikeTheBee I’ll bet the builders-rubbish 1 foot down in most Irish gardens doesn’t help either.
04:07 MikeTheBee: Dublin is built on marsh like London is it not?
04:07 SukiFuller: Oh @mikethebee you are such a sucker – he’s a ponce!
04:08 MikeTheBee: <8 04:08 MikeTheBee: good news http://www.web4water.com/news/news_story.asp?id=16501&channel=4 04:08 liveireland: great show thanks 04:08 cgarvey: Cheers for the show again Tom 04:08 SukiFuller: BTW - I am going to China next month for 1 year 04:08 monkchips: well done tom 04:08 monkchips: loving the show 04:08 monkchips: and the new room is so much better 04:09 monkchips: šŸ˜‰ 04:09 MikeTheBee: good show, good luck suki, report back via greemonk 04:09 MikeTheBee: cherrs TOm 04:09 SukiFuller: Cheers Tom 04:09 PaulMWatson: Cheers Tom 04:09 SukiFuller: Mike I shall - that monkchips gets all my news first 04:10 Tom Raftery: Thanks everyone for your contributions - made all the difference to the show