Comments on: Utilities are too top-down, command and control http://greenmonk.net/utilities-are-too-top-down-command-and-control/ Green from the roots up, Sustainable from the top down Thu, 24 May 2012 01:33:03 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: If Utilities don’t step up their customer communications, they risk their considerable smart grid investments – GreenMonk: the blog http://greenmonk.net/utilities-are-too-top-down-command-and-control/#comment-27407 If Utilities don’t step up their customer communications, they risk their considerable smart grid investments – GreenMonk: the blog Mon, 06 Jun 2011 16:54:17 +0000 http://greenmonk.net/?p=618#comment-27407 [...] have written lots of times over the years about the need for utilities to improve their [...] [...] have written lots of times over the years about the need for utilities to improve their [...]

]]> By: Utilities developing more of a customer focus http://greenmonk.net/utilities-are-too-top-down-command-and-control/#comment-12971 Utilities developing more of a customer focus Sun, 26 Sep 2010 23:13:48 +0000 http://greenmonk.net/?p=618#comment-12971 [...] to involve consumers in the process. Obviously, this is a point I have been banging on about for some time, but it is fantastic to see that the utilities are starting to finally get the [...] [...] to involve consumers in the process. Obviously, this is a point I have been banging on about for some time, but it is fantastic to see that the utilities are starting to finally get the [...]

]]> By: Tendril » Oracle Utilities, Smart Grids and vehicle to grid http://greenmonk.net/utilities-are-too-top-down-command-and-control/#comment-5015 Tendril » Oracle Utilities, Smart Grids and vehicle to grid Tue, 31 Mar 2009 18:52:18 +0000 http://greenmonk.net/?p=618#comment-5015 [...] We got onto the subject of Demand Response (surprise, surprise!) and I raised my concerns about utilities being too command and control. When I said that for DR to really take off consumers need to be in control of their devices Guerry [...] [...] We got onto the subject of Demand Response (surprise, surprise!) and I raised my concerns about utilities being too command and control. When I said that for DR to really take off consumers need to be in control of their devices Guerry [...]

]]> By: Why Smart Grids are good! http://greenmonk.net/utilities-are-too-top-down-command-and-control/#comment-4804 Why Smart Grids are good! Wed, 25 Feb 2009 11:31:31 +0000 http://greenmonk.net/?p=618#comment-4804 [...] have made no secret of the fact that I am a big fan of Smart Grids and Demand Response programs (properly rolled out, of course!). I have also spoken at various international conferences propounding the benefits of [...] [...] have made no secret of the fact that I am a big fan of Smart Grids and Demand Response programs (properly rolled out, of course!). I have also spoken at various international conferences propounding the benefits of [...]

]]> By: ENERGIA “Serve subito la rete intelligente Obama per fortuna l’ha capito” « Il Blog di Deamaltea Formazione e Energie Sostenibili http://greenmonk.net/utilities-are-too-top-down-command-and-control/#comment-4614 ENERGIA “Serve subito la rete intelligente Obama per fortuna l’ha capito” « Il Blog di Deamaltea Formazione e Energie Sostenibili Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:39:52 +0000 http://greenmonk.net/?p=618#comment-4614 [...] Utilities are too top-down, command and control [...] [...] Utilities are too top-down, command and control [...]

]]> By: Dave Johnson http://greenmonk.net/utilities-are-too-top-down-command-and-control/#comment-4427 Dave Johnson Wed, 03 Dec 2008 07:14:29 +0000 http://greenmonk.net/?p=618#comment-4427 @andreas good point about markets. The utilities know that the demand is inelastic due to monopolies etc so prices changes will have little impact on demand. @tom what are companies like Trilliant and GridPoint doing in America? Are they top down control? @andreas good point about markets. The utilities know that the demand is inelastic due to monopolies etc so prices changes will have little impact on demand.

@tom what are companies like Trilliant and GridPoint doing in America? Are they top down control?

]]> By: Phoebe bright http://greenmonk.net/utilities-are-too-top-down-command-and-control/#comment-4420 Phoebe bright Mon, 01 Dec 2008 10:05:28 +0000 http://greenmonk.net/?p=618#comment-4420 I'm all in favour of putting the intelligence with the device rather than anywhere else in the chain. It is definitely not the decision of the utility when my devices are on or off, "I turned by dryer on now because I need that shirt in 5 minutes so don't you dare turn it off now ", and I don't think it's the smart meter playing command-and-control either. I want to see the individual devices making decisions (or us overriding them). The Dryer knows I want that shirt now so it stays on, but at other times, if it sees the price go above a certain level, it turns off. The devices get the data they need via the internet in some form, so smart meters don't need to be smart at all. All they need to do, in my view, is record usage by the quarter hour and send it back to the utility. That's all. I’m all in favour of putting the intelligence with the device rather than anywhere else in the chain. It is definitely not the decision of the utility when my devices are on or off, “I turned by dryer on now because I need that shirt in 5 minutes so don’t you dare turn it off now “, and I don’t think it’s the smart meter playing command-and-control either. I want to see the individual devices making decisions (or us overriding them). The Dryer knows I want that shirt now so it stays on, but at other times, if it sees the price go above a certain level, it turns off.

The devices get the data they need via the internet in some form, so smart meters don’t need to be smart at all. All they need to do, in my view, is record usage by the quarter hour and send it back to the utility. That’s all.

]]> By: Andreas M. Antonopoulos http://greenmonk.net/utilities-are-too-top-down-command-and-control/#comment-4414 Andreas M. Antonopoulos Sat, 29 Nov 2008 21:58:35 +0000 http://greenmonk.net/?p=618#comment-4414 Funny how the utilities don't inherently trust capitalism At a very basic level, the only "signal" needed for consumer behavior to change is the energy price. If they trusted markets, they'd understand that price is enough to create demand response. But they don't trust markets. On the one hand they are insulated from real competition by virtue of regional monopolies and on the other hand the only markets they have experienced are heavily manipulated speculation markets run by Enron. No wonder they would rather trust their own central control more than a market. Bottom line: Consumers won't agree to handing over control. As much as utilities try to present this as a "softer" form of control than rolling blackouts, most consumers see blackouts as service failure, not demand control. Every time I've seen a utility presentation on smart meters, the VERY FIRST audience question, is "but what about consumer control". Funny how the utilities don’t inherently trust capitalism

At a very basic level, the only “signal” needed for consumer behavior to change is the energy price. If they trusted markets, they’d understand that price is enough to create demand response.

But they don’t trust markets. On the one hand they are insulated from real competition by virtue of regional monopolies and on the other hand the only markets they have experienced are heavily manipulated speculation markets run by Enron. No wonder they would rather trust their own central control more than a market.

Bottom line: Consumers won’t agree to handing over control. As much as utilities try to present this as a “softer” form of control than rolling blackouts, most consumers see blackouts as service failure, not demand control. Every time I’ve seen a utility presentation on smart meters, the VERY FIRST audience question, is “but what about consumer control”.

]]> By: Jean-Francois Arseneault http://greenmonk.net/utilities-are-too-top-down-command-and-control/#comment-4413 Jean-Francois Arseneault Sat, 29 Nov 2008 19:06:57 +0000 http://greenmonk.net/?p=618#comment-4413 Tom, in the true spirit of capitalism and 'buy low, sell high', do you think we'll get to a point where we will purchases excess electricity and store it locally, so to benefit from off-peak savings? And if so, isn't it opening a pandora's box to having consumers purchases expensive 'last-mile' technologies (batteries, converters, etc). I see an analogy to the constant centralization/client-server 'wars' happening in IT since the 80's. And constantly switching model has a cost, expecially in terms of hardware and grid-refactoring to accomodate for delivery models, no? Tom, in the true spirit of capitalism and ‘buy low, sell high’, do you think we’ll get to a point where we will purchases excess electricity and store it locally, so to benefit from off-peak savings?

And if so, isn’t it opening a pandora’s box to having consumers purchases expensive ‘last-mile’ technologies (batteries, converters, etc).

I see an analogy to the constant centralization/client-server ‘wars’ happening in IT since the 80′s. And constantly switching model has a cost, expecially in terms of hardware and grid-refactoring to accomodate for delivery models, no?

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