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	<title>Comments on: To protect and serve who again?</title>
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		<title>By: solar</title>
		<link>http://greenmonk.net/to-protect-and-serve-who-again/comment-page-1/#comment-12141</link>
		<dc:creator>solar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jul 2010 10:49:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenmonk.net/?p=1581#comment-12141</guid>
		<description>Just when did civil disobedience become a crime?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just when did civil disobedience become a crime?</p>
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		<title>By: Change Your Thoughts and You Will Change Your Life &#124; What&#39;s It Take Blog</title>
		<link>http://greenmonk.net/to-protect-and-serve-who-again/comment-page-1/#comment-10580</link>
		<dc:creator>Change Your Thoughts and You Will Change Your Life &#124; What&#39;s It Take Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 00:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenmonk.net/?p=1581#comment-10580</guid>
		<description>[...] To protect and serve who again? (greenmonk.net) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] To protect and serve who again? (greenmonk.net) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Uncle B</title>
		<link>http://greenmonk.net/to-protect-and-serve-who-again/comment-page-1/#comment-7724</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 16:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenmonk.net/?p=1581#comment-7724</guid>
		<description>Police state versus World saviors - Read your Bible! Evey time someone comes up with a good idea, that may disturb the &quot;Status Quo&quot; they get their asses kicked, put on a cross, and destroyed, then reality sets in and they are worshiped for over 2 thousand years! Here&#039;s a Modern, Scientific, Law to make as a base to your &quot;Church of Green&quot;  EROI: - Energy Return on Investment, law,  &quot;can survive only as long as they are capable of getting more net energy from any activity than they expend during the performance of that activity&quot; - And Americans are using oil for leverage in this, for their very survival, as we speak! Take away the oil, we have great hulking American Neanderthals, starving in Hoovervilles, Tent cities, Shanty Towns, casual labor jobs only, no medical coverage, disenfranchised from all that is good in America eating spam at xmas, road kill, possum and rodents the rest the year, composting, hand watering and humanuring garden plots, and with free bus passage, one way, paid by New York city to rural areas to build tar-paper shacks, and scavenge for food! Higher priced Oil, less leverage for the EROI equation did this!
The other factor: Asian Explosion! America is in full recoil to the superior business practices, educational prowess, manufacturing capability and now greater military skills, with &quot;Secret&quot; Chinese Plutonium and Chinese delivery systems for it in Iran to protect their recent purchase of the South Azadegan Oil Fields there - along side the &quot;secret&quot; nukes of American origins in Israel  - Two  â€œSecrets&quot;  in the Middle East! Toucher! America China can play international chess too! Goddammit! and less of the worlds oil for U.S.A.! Less leverage for the survival equation EROI!
Next we attack the great American Neanderthal beast himself! Bred by greedy capitalists he evolved over the last 200 years, very fast! He was force fed richer and richer food to drive his body to exploit the richness found in America! These first easy to mine resources are almost all gone, now! What to do with these great hulking high calorie dependent, over-muscled, over-sized, super consumers of up to 80% of the world&#039;s resources now that we have no more tasks for him to perform? The &quot;Legacy Workers&quot; from the flight to Asia of American capital? The &quot;Smoke Stack&quot; era remenants and their massive great strong physically yet practically uneducatable (to Asian standards) children?  The up and coming &quot;Foot Ball Stars&quot; given preferential breeding rites even today over intellectual performers at our high schools, colleges and Universities? Lauded and applauded, for What? Can we ever convert from &quot;Mr. Muscles&quot; adoration to intellectual promotion as in Asian circumstances? Will this once necessary mass propagandization of our lives end as abruptly as needed? Can we start to worship the smaller smarter, physically lighter, vegan, Computer whiz, Science geniuses, Chemistry gurus, Physics wizards, Math meisters, over &quot;Mr Hardcock Giant Strong Sports Star&quot; we worship today? Can we do this soon enough to epoch Asian efforts in the sane direction for today&#039;s world conquests? Once again, the EROI equation that cannot be cheated, We cannot compete in the car manufacturing industry, our former forte, all these years, against 98 pound, little, slight, vegan, Asian, ladies, with all our force! They have beaten our asses good at our own game, and make the parts in China for all the cars we drive, even Harley Davidson&#039;s have Chinese parts! Goddamn the equation again! They have us beat! They do it better, for less effort!
Next, we wittiness: Our dollar has fallen in the world as the transfer of capital world wide to Asian Investment markets occurred, and we show a very large drop in our net value over that period. We also see a migration of Capital deliberately away from our dollar, even at small losses! Proof Positive that we are fighting a losing war with the free markets of the world, and with Asians in particular, they have even bought up all the free oil in the world for themselves, taking our great lever away from us! We cannot compete because our ways deny the EROI equation, from the food we eat to the &#039;Hummer&quot; example, and we die off!
The &quot;Status Quo&quot; in America, those with money invested, lives at stake, ways of life fixed in tradition, family histories undeniable, the &quot;entitled, the Old Money indolent rich, the inheritors of security, the comfortably pensioned, the stable civil service, the career professionals, sports stars, movie stars, don&#039;t want anything to change! no matter how unreal their stand! They are secure, comfortable and safe with things just like they are, and don&#039;t seem to fit into the EROI equation, but they do! later than some perhaps, but they too will have to taylor there costs of survival to fit! like it or not! Inflation, the great equalizer, will get them but good!
Police on the other hand, are underlings, following orders, surviving in numb-minded, shuttered, blinkered, obedience, a gun in hand, a gun at their foreheads, they are the ultimate slave to the Status Quo, an interdependent pair however, and still subject to the EROI law! 
See you in Asia, Where the big game is now, Yankee Doodle! I leave you to your own devices! Have a Happy Day!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Police state versus World saviors &#8211; Read your Bible! Evey time someone comes up with a good idea, that may disturb the &#8220;Status Quo&#8221; they get their asses kicked, put on a cross, and destroyed, then reality sets in and they are worshiped for over 2 thousand years! Here&#8217;s a Modern, Scientific, Law to make as a base to your &#8220;Church of Green&#8221;  EROI: &#8211; Energy Return on Investment, law,  &#8220;can survive only as long as they are capable of getting more net energy from any activity than they expend during the performance of that activity&#8221; &#8211; And Americans are using oil for leverage in this, for their very survival, as we speak! Take away the oil, we have great hulking American Neanderthals, starving in Hoovervilles, Tent cities, Shanty Towns, casual labor jobs only, no medical coverage, disenfranchised from all that is good in America eating spam at xmas, road kill, possum and rodents the rest the year, composting, hand watering and humanuring garden plots, and with free bus passage, one way, paid by New York city to rural areas to build tar-paper shacks, and scavenge for food! Higher priced Oil, less leverage for the EROI equation did this!<br />
The other factor: Asian Explosion! America is in full recoil to the superior business practices, educational prowess, manufacturing capability and now greater military skills, with &#8220;Secret&#8221; Chinese Plutonium and Chinese delivery systems for it in Iran to protect their recent purchase of the South Azadegan Oil Fields there &#8211; along side the &#8220;secret&#8221; nukes of American origins in Israel  &#8211; Two  â€œSecrets&#8221;  in the Middle East! Toucher! America China can play international chess too! Goddammit! and less of the worlds oil for U.S.A.! Less leverage for the survival equation EROI!<br />
Next we attack the great American Neanderthal beast himself! Bred by greedy capitalists he evolved over the last 200 years, very fast! He was force fed richer and richer food to drive his body to exploit the richness found in America! These first easy to mine resources are almost all gone, now! What to do with these great hulking high calorie dependent, over-muscled, over-sized, super consumers of up to 80% of the world&#8217;s resources now that we have no more tasks for him to perform? The &#8220;Legacy Workers&#8221; from the flight to Asia of American capital? The &#8220;Smoke Stack&#8221; era remenants and their massive great strong physically yet practically uneducatable (to Asian standards) children?  The up and coming &#8220;Foot Ball Stars&#8221; given preferential breeding rites even today over intellectual performers at our high schools, colleges and Universities? Lauded and applauded, for What? Can we ever convert from &#8220;Mr. Muscles&#8221; adoration to intellectual promotion as in Asian circumstances? Will this once necessary mass propagandization of our lives end as abruptly as needed? Can we start to worship the smaller smarter, physically lighter, vegan, Computer whiz, Science geniuses, Chemistry gurus, Physics wizards, Math meisters, over &#8220;Mr Hardcock Giant Strong Sports Star&#8221; we worship today? Can we do this soon enough to epoch Asian efforts in the sane direction for today&#8217;s world conquests? Once again, the EROI equation that cannot be cheated, We cannot compete in the car manufacturing industry, our former forte, all these years, against 98 pound, little, slight, vegan, Asian, ladies, with all our force! They have beaten our asses good at our own game, and make the parts in China for all the cars we drive, even Harley Davidson&#8217;s have Chinese parts! Goddamn the equation again! They have us beat! They do it better, for less effort!<br />
Next, we wittiness: Our dollar has fallen in the world as the transfer of capital world wide to Asian Investment markets occurred, and we show a very large drop in our net value over that period. We also see a migration of Capital deliberately away from our dollar, even at small losses! Proof Positive that we are fighting a losing war with the free markets of the world, and with Asians in particular, they have even bought up all the free oil in the world for themselves, taking our great lever away from us! We cannot compete because our ways deny the EROI equation, from the food we eat to the &#8216;Hummer&#8221; example, and we die off!<br />
The &#8220;Status Quo&#8221; in America, those with money invested, lives at stake, ways of life fixed in tradition, family histories undeniable, the &#8220;entitled, the Old Money indolent rich, the inheritors of security, the comfortably pensioned, the stable civil service, the career professionals, sports stars, movie stars, don&#8217;t want anything to change! no matter how unreal their stand! They are secure, comfortable and safe with things just like they are, and don&#8217;t seem to fit into the EROI equation, but they do! later than some perhaps, but they too will have to taylor there costs of survival to fit! like it or not! Inflation, the great equalizer, will get them but good!<br />
Police on the other hand, are underlings, following orders, surviving in numb-minded, shuttered, blinkered, obedience, a gun in hand, a gun at their foreheads, they are the ultimate slave to the Status Quo, an interdependent pair however, and still subject to the EROI law!<br />
See you in Asia, Where the big game is now, Yankee Doodle! I leave you to your own devices! Have a Happy Day!</p>
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		<title>By: emily</title>
		<link>http://greenmonk.net/to-protect-and-serve-who-again/comment-page-1/#comment-7644</link>
		<dc:creator>emily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 01:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenmonk.net/?p=1581#comment-7644</guid>
		<description>You put too much faith in what essentially amounts to questionable science. 

What exactly are you doing about the problem besides protesting/complaining about it?  That is the answer to why the US has still not come very far in terms of freeing itself from fossil fuels.

Get over yourself.  You hold up a sign, or write an article, thinking you contribute something positive to society.  You don&#039;t.  Anybody can do that.  When you look at your own life, how much are you really doing about today&#039;s environmental problems besides discussing it?

Go build a solar plant or a wind farm or something.  Once you see how much work it takes, then come back and talk down to us.

Sincerely

biodiesel producer (from waste restaurant grease)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You put too much faith in what essentially amounts to questionable science. </p>
<p>What exactly are you doing about the problem besides protesting/complaining about it?  That is the answer to why the US has still not come very far in terms of freeing itself from fossil fuels.</p>
<p>Get over yourself.  You hold up a sign, or write an article, thinking you contribute something positive to society.  You don&#8217;t.  Anybody can do that.  When you look at your own life, how much are you really doing about today&#8217;s environmental problems besides discussing it?</p>
<p>Go build a solar plant or a wind farm or something.  Once you see how much work it takes, then come back and talk down to us.</p>
<p>Sincerely</p>
<p>biodiesel producer (from waste restaurant grease)</p>
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		<title>By: Green accouting? Gimme a break &#124; AccMan</title>
		<link>http://greenmonk.net/to-protect-and-serve-who-again/comment-page-1/#comment-7549</link>
		<dc:creator>Green accouting? Gimme a break &#124; AccMan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenmonk.net/?p=1581#comment-7549</guid>
		<description>[...] another way, why would any business adopt &#8216;green&#8217; policies when they see the forces of the state ranged against peaceful protest and the very same issues of which Gary speaks? It&#8217;s a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] another way, why would any business adopt &#8216;green&#8217; policies when they see the forces of the state ranged against peaceful protest and the very same issues of which Gary speaks? It&#8217;s a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bernie Goldbach</title>
		<link>http://greenmonk.net/to-protect-and-serve-who-again/comment-page-1/#comment-7543</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernie Goldbach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 06:04:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenmonk.net/?p=1581#comment-7543</guid>
		<description>As a certified Transition Town Terrorist, I can see the government&#039;s position and I also know the work-arounds that ensure the right amount of television footage, meaningful dialogue and political maneuvers. 

It&#039;s handy that elected officials can roll out the terrorism statutes when &quot;visibly irritated&quot;. It&#039;s important to realise that if we stood on the sidelines and granted wide-reaching and unbalanced anti-terrorism powers to the government, we often have ourselves to blame when the government pushes the anti-terrorism button when it suits the establishment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a certified Transition Town Terrorist, I can see the government&#8217;s position and I also know the work-arounds that ensure the right amount of television footage, meaningful dialogue and political maneuvers. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s handy that elected officials can roll out the terrorism statutes when &#8220;visibly irritated&#8221;. It&#8217;s important to realise that if we stood on the sidelines and granted wide-reaching and unbalanced anti-terrorism powers to the government, we often have ourselves to blame when the government pushes the anti-terrorism button when it suits the establishment.</p>
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		<title>By: S.Smith</title>
		<link>http://greenmonk.net/to-protect-and-serve-who-again/comment-page-1/#comment-7539</link>
		<dc:creator>S.Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 00:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenmonk.net/?p=1581#comment-7539</guid>
		<description>A potent and scary article. I ache for the day when the odds are even. Those with Big Wigs need oil (and all the other horrific polluters) require massive amounts of energy to keep violence--even the show of potential violence--high.

Protesters these days own lots of courage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A potent and scary article. I ache for the day when the odds are even. Those with Big Wigs need oil (and all the other horrific polluters) require massive amounts of energy to keep violence&#8211;even the show of potential violence&#8211;high.</p>
<p>Protesters these days own lots of courage.</p>
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		<title>By: James Farrar</title>
		<link>http://greenmonk.net/to-protect-and-serve-who-again/comment-page-1/#comment-7523</link>
		<dc:creator>James Farrar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 18:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenmonk.net/?p=1581#comment-7523</guid>
		<description>Tom

I sense we are heading again for a fairly turbulent cycle of activism. 

As we do those of us operating mostly in the corporate sphere would do well to remember we owe a lot to the change makers at the front end. Marc Gunther&#039;s post this week is good on this point:

&#039;While these tactics might not be well suited for, say, the World Resources Institute, the diversity of the environmental movement is a wonderful thing. Activists at groups like Greenpeace, Rainforest Action Network or Friends of the Earth function, in essence, as the business development arms of the more collaborative, mainstream groups like the Environmental Defense Fund or Conservation International. Companies under  attack from Greenpeace or RAN often ask EDF or CI to help them dig out of trouble.&#039;

http://www.marcgunther.com/2009/07/05/greenpeace-ridicules-traitor-joes/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom</p>
<p>I sense we are heading again for a fairly turbulent cycle of activism. </p>
<p>As we do those of us operating mostly in the corporate sphere would do well to remember we owe a lot to the change makers at the front end. Marc Gunther&#8217;s post this week is good on this point:</p>
<p>&#8216;While these tactics might not be well suited for, say, the World Resources Institute, the diversity of the environmental movement is a wonderful thing. Activists at groups like Greenpeace, Rainforest Action Network or Friends of the Earth function, in essence, as the business development arms of the more collaborative, mainstream groups like the Environmental Defense Fund or Conservation International. Companies under  attack from Greenpeace or RAN often ask EDF or CI to help them dig out of trouble.&#8217;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.marcgunther.com/2009/07/05/greenpeace-ridicules-traitor-joes/" rel="nofollow">http://www.marcgunther.com/2009/07/05/greenpeace-ridicules-traitor-joes/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Caroline Kawashima</title>
		<link>http://greenmonk.net/to-protect-and-serve-who-again/comment-page-1/#comment-7522</link>
		<dc:creator>Caroline Kawashima</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 18:52:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenmonk.net/?p=1581#comment-7522</guid>
		<description>As Hunter Lovins of Natural Capitalism so eloquently pointed out at the Radical Collaboration event this past August, both environmentalists, green activists and corporations, governments need to take a new approach towards mutually addressing climate change issues in a positive, partnership-oriented manner.  This has been hard for green activists who have been fighting the trenches for so long -- but for the first time in a long time, at least here in the US we have an administration that has climate change on the top agenda and we have corporations beginning to understand that &quot;cause&quot; is the new corporate currency.  It&#039;s frustrating to see continued &quot;us vs. them&quot; mentally in the case you point out here but we need to continually look for solutions to improve awareness and understanding as clearly maintaining the status quo will not work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Hunter Lovins of Natural Capitalism so eloquently pointed out at the Radical Collaboration event this past August, both environmentalists, green activists and corporations, governments need to take a new approach towards mutually addressing climate change issues in a positive, partnership-oriented manner.  This has been hard for green activists who have been fighting the trenches for so long &#8212; but for the first time in a long time, at least here in the US we have an administration that has climate change on the top agenda and we have corporations beginning to understand that &#8220;cause&#8221; is the new corporate currency.  It&#8217;s frustrating to see continued &#8220;us vs. them&#8221; mentally in the case you point out here but we need to continually look for solutions to improve awareness and understanding as clearly maintaining the status quo will not work.</p>
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		<title>By: Dominic Muren</title>
		<link>http://greenmonk.net/to-protect-and-serve-who-again/comment-page-1/#comment-7514</link>
		<dc:creator>Dominic Muren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:10:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenmonk.net/?p=1581#comment-7514</guid>
		<description>Tom-

I think the most valuable piece of insight to take away from these sorts of confrontations is this: activists are only portrayed and responded to as the problem because the entities doing the responding and portrayal are part of a system that is totally reliant on continuing the sort of practices that lead to the crisis we are in. And, they don&#039;t know what do do about this conflict of interest (save the planet vs save their institutions). Generally, these sorts of bizarrely irrational behavior can be traced back to some fear held by someone. In this case, that someone is the media, western government, and the industrial complex that provides their funding and justification being. And the fear is that there is no way to address the problem without negatively altering their positions of power.

The next best thing, then, is to focus your attention on somebody else.

I guess at least this tells us that the crisis is real.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom-</p>
<p>I think the most valuable piece of insight to take away from these sorts of confrontations is this: activists are only portrayed and responded to as the problem because the entities doing the responding and portrayal are part of a system that is totally reliant on continuing the sort of practices that lead to the crisis we are in. And, they don&#8217;t know what do do about this conflict of interest (save the planet vs save their institutions). Generally, these sorts of bizarrely irrational behavior can be traced back to some fear held by someone. In this case, that someone is the media, western government, and the industrial complex that provides their funding and justification being. And the fear is that there is no way to address the problem without negatively altering their positions of power.</p>
<p>The next best thing, then, is to focus your attention on somebody else.</p>
<p>I guess at least this tells us that the crisis is real.</p>
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