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	<title>Comments on: There&#8217;s gold in them thar bills!</title>
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	<link>http://greenmonk.net/theres-gold-in-them-thar-bills/</link>
	<description>Green from the roots up, Sustainable from the top down</description>
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		<title>By: Paul M. Watson</title>
		<link>http://greenmonk.net/theres-gold-in-them-thar-bills/comment-page-1/#comment-8401</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul M. Watson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:54:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenmonk.net/?p=1573#comment-8401</guid>
		<description>Sounds like something government carbon taxes would also do well to mine. Incentivise people to upgrade to more efficient devices with lower taxes.

You can keep it simple with a carbon tax on your overall electricity usage but it will be more effective if the tax structure highlighted to people exactly how they could cut their electricity usage. Action steps, not just broad penalties.

Personally though I want to own and control this data. Not out of fear but because I want to be able to explicitly share my data with Electrolux and have them offer me a discount.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like something government carbon taxes would also do well to mine. Incentivise people to upgrade to more efficient devices with lower taxes.</p>
<p>You can keep it simple with a carbon tax on your overall electricity usage but it will be more effective if the tax structure highlighted to people exactly how they could cut their electricity usage. Action steps, not just broad penalties.</p>
<p>Personally though I want to own and control this data. Not out of fear but because I want to be able to explicitly share my data with Electrolux and have them offer me a discount.</p>
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		<title>By: Home Camp 3 and other things&#8230; &#171; Home Camp</title>
		<link>http://greenmonk.net/theres-gold-in-them-thar-bills/comment-page-1/#comment-7752</link>
		<dc:creator>Home Camp 3 and other things&#8230; &#171; Home Camp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 10:37:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenmonk.net/?p=1573#comment-7752</guid>
		<description>[...] on the GreenMonk blog @tomraftery has got his energy chat hat on &#8211; check out his take on how utilities companies can use smart meters to generate alternative revenue streams. I&#8217;m betting the Spanish version would have involved many more exclamation [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] on the GreenMonk blog @tomraftery has got his energy chat hat on &#8211; check out his take on how utilities companies can use smart meters to generate alternative revenue streams. I&#8217;m betting the Spanish version would have involved many more exclamation [...]</p>
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		<title>By: james governor</title>
		<link>http://greenmonk.net/theres-gold-in-them-thar-bills/comment-page-1/#comment-7550</link>
		<dc:creator>james governor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenmonk.net/?p=1573#comment-7550</guid>
		<description>how about a follow up where we do go into some depth with Monika. its an extremely interesting topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>how about a follow up where we do go into some depth with Monika. its an extremely interesting topic.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Raftery</title>
		<link>http://greenmonk.net/theres-gold-in-them-thar-bills/comment-page-1/#comment-7493</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Raftery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 07:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenmonk.net/?p=1573#comment-7493</guid>
		<description>Jon,

Tbh I didn&#039;t go into the technicalities of this with Monika. I just took her at her word that the data from smart meters is granular enough to identify appliances. 

Re the database - I have seen estimates that smart meters will generate up to 400mb of data each (depending on how often they are sampling) per annum. When you multiply this up by a few million customers and factor in data retention legislation you are looking at terabytes of data storage, possibly even petabytes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon,</p>
<p>Tbh I didn&#8217;t go into the technicalities of this with Monika. I just took her at her word that the data from smart meters is granular enough to identify appliances. </p>
<p>Re the database &#8211; I have seen estimates that smart meters will generate up to 400mb of data each (depending on how often they are sampling) per annum. When you multiply this up by a few million customers and factor in data retention legislation you are looking at terabytes of data storage, possibly even petabytes.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Balin</title>
		<link>http://greenmonk.net/theres-gold-in-them-thar-bills/comment-page-1/#comment-7484</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Balin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:04:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenmonk.net/?p=1573#comment-7484</guid>
		<description>Tom - Very well written. I thought I&#039;d take a moment and go into a bit more detail than the 140-character retweet I sent earlier.

I hadn&#039;t thought of how each appliance can have a unique power signature, but it makes sense. What comes to mind are how voice recognition systems identify patterns in speech waveforms rather than looking at all the unique ways people can pronounce a word or phrase. As you describe, these unique signatures can trigger incredibly precise, focused communications through customer bills, web portals and a host of mobile devices. 

Keeping in mind I harbor some concerns over privacy issues (including the possibility of bringing the concept of spam to a completely new level), this capability has the potential to radically transform behaviors in a positive way - both for customers and for energy suppliers. 

Mike Balin
www.streamserve.com
twitter.com/mikebalin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom &#8211; Very well written. I thought I&#8217;d take a moment and go into a bit more detail than the 140-character retweet I sent earlier.</p>
<p>I hadn&#8217;t thought of how each appliance can have a unique power signature, but it makes sense. What comes to mind are how voice recognition systems identify patterns in speech waveforms rather than looking at all the unique ways people can pronounce a word or phrase. As you describe, these unique signatures can trigger incredibly precise, focused communications through customer bills, web portals and a host of mobile devices. </p>
<p>Keeping in mind I harbor some concerns over privacy issues (including the possibility of bringing the concept of spam to a completely new level), this capability has the potential to radically transform behaviors in a positive way &#8211; both for customers and for energy suppliers. </p>
<p>Mike Balin<br />
<a href="http://www.streamserve.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.streamserve.com</a><br />
twitter.com/mikebalin</p>
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		<title>By: jon menzies-smith</title>
		<link>http://greenmonk.net/theres-gold-in-them-thar-bills/comment-page-1/#comment-7478</link>
		<dc:creator>jon menzies-smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greenmonk.net/?p=1573#comment-7478</guid>
		<description>As far as I&#039;m aware, having kWh usage information for every few seconds is not enough to profile appliances in the home. Reactive power measurements are also required. I dont think there are any home energy meters you can buy that measure reactive power - not sure if the smart meters being rolled out gather this data.

Do you know any more about the technicalities behind this? Are there meters out there that already capture this information?

It will be interesting to see who becomes responsible for the database that stores all these product power profiles... i think i read that there was some initiative started a few years back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as I&#8217;m aware, having kWh usage information for every few seconds is not enough to profile appliances in the home. Reactive power measurements are also required. I dont think there are any home energy meters you can buy that measure reactive power &#8211; not sure if the smart meters being rolled out gather this data.</p>
<p>Do you know any more about the technicalities behind this? Are there meters out there that already capture this information?</p>
<p>It will be interesting to see who becomes responsible for the database that stores all these product power profiles&#8230; i think i read that there was some initiative started a few years back.</p>
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